It’s not often that I find myself in agreement with uber lefty Jane Hamsher. But I found it hard to argue with her defense of recently deposed czar Van Jones. Ms. Hamsher notes, as aptly put by Tom Maguire , “he wasn’t any crazier than the rest of us”:
Now he’s been thrown under the bus by the White House for signing his name to a petition expressing something that 35% of all Democrats believed as of 2007 — that George Bush knew in advance about the attacks of 9/11.
Ms. Hamsher further ruefully notes that in the face of conservative attacks “no coherent liberal critique was offered…”.
Indeed. Lord knows we have all been waiting for something coherent from our friends on the left for oh so many moons.
I’ve been trying to sort out what is meant in your post aware that it’s probably not nearly as obtuse or complex as I am probably trying to make it, but I’m still not sure what you mean. I suspect you are using sarcasm in your comment toward Hamsher and I tried to read her column at the link but I just couldn’t get through it. I didn’t have twenty minutes to waste on something that long and boring, no doubt the same way readers of this blog feel about my posts, at least on occasion.
The thrown under the bus comment…..for signing a petition, etc……???.. I haven’t read that anywhere, so it didn’t have any meaning for me. Are you saying that the reason the WH gave for his leaving was that he had signed the 9/11, Bush had prior knowledge petition ? I had not yet read or seen that the WH gave any reason yet at all for his resignation but I’ve not been paying rapt attention, I admit.- I saw only that that he resigned in the middle of the night on the weekend. Obviously pressure was applied, but as often happens the Democrats ignored the negative apparently in hopes it would just fade quietly away. One thing is sure: they didn’t let it stop them for long, appointing a Manufacturing czar just today, to take the total of czar appointees back to 32.
As far as the point, ‘he wasn’t any crazier then the rest of us”………. well, there is some truth in anything if you look far enough for justification, isn’t there?
>>>>>Comments I heard this morning:
For some reason the following got dropped from my above post:
Comments I heard this morning:
I heard a comment this morning that Jones is more dangerous out of the administration than he would have been in it. Of course that doesn’t address the WH error in hiring him in the first place and in the public paying his salary, does it ? or a bunch of other factors such as having an avowed communist working for the WH and only goes to the point that at least his activities would have most likely been more observable, perhaps, than they will be now. At least he’s no longer on the payroll, hopefully.
I heard another comment that Podesta, liberal hack and former Clinton aide, issued a statement to the effect that Jones was a victim of a conservative smear campaign and that he would continue to work with Jones (no doubt reporting back to Obama in the process -parenthetical comment added). Of course Podesta did not address any of the supposed smears and whether there was any truth to them.
Then I heard that Keith Olbermann has called for liberal blog enthusiasts to organize a search and destroy campaign against Glenn Beck, his assistant by the name of ‘Stu’ and one of the Fox news execs, whose name I can’t remember. Olbermann has asked that his liberal internet enthusiasts and politico’s everywhere hit the internet and or the streets to dig up any dirt they can find on the three and to both post it to the liberal blogs and send it to him where apparently he plans to collect, gather and organize it to ‘expose’ it on his MSNBC cable news program that no one is watching. The postscript was that…….. that even if they found something, which would be maybe likely if any person’s total record was exposed, that Olbermann airing it on his program wouldn’t have any effect because the MSNBC ratings are lower then they’ve ever been before, and in the tank. I for one, couldn’t have told you if Olbermann was still on the air, or SBag Chris Matthews, for that matter.
Kevin, I guess you can contact MSNBC and leave a message for Olbermann that Glenn Beck is a liberal dirt-bag hack and doesn’t know how to connect the dots or to spell Oligarchy. That oughta help and would seem to be thinking you would be capable of.
Hopefully, not to wear your readers out, apologize for that, but one other point that might seem to have significance.
Apparently the WH vetting process includes a 7 page background questionnaire that everyone associated with the WH is supposed to complete. Interesting, none of the Czar’s were or have been asked to fill it out and were appointed without any formal vetting.
Really interesting.
Coherent like calling a simple speech to K-12 kids indoctrination? I’m curious as to who on the right do you think is putting out all these coherent and great ideas? Who is leading that party right now? All I am hearing is gripes about speeches to kids, death panels, Nazi’s, communism, birth certificates, tea parties and town halls.
The numbers seem pretty high in that poll. It went on to say 22% of ALL voters thought the president knew. Again, this seems high but perhaps they thought the prez had intelligence and just failed to act in time. I find it hard to believe almost 1/4 of the country thought 9/11 was an inside job. I do think a lot of Americans felt like they were lied to about various things (WMD’s in Iraq) and the climate was pretty skeptical in 2007.
I don’t know much about Van Jones so I can’t say if he is more or less crazy than me. Looks like he’s gone now. Means very little to me. Might not have been a good hire on BO’s part. But, name one president that hasn’t made one bad appointment or hire? Life goes on…
And Dentoku, do ever get the feeling you are just talking to yourself?
Thanks for another good laugh.
Well, it was a late night post on my part and not my best work. I just got a kick out of Hamsher saying Jones was representative of liberals and her line of “no coherent argument” was classic.
If Jones was Obama’s only poor choice it could perhaps be more easily forgiven. And it wasn’t just the “truther” statement that was the problem. He called himself a communist and Republicans assholes supported the cop killing Mumia and said whites intentionally pollute neighborhoods of people of color. So, are those views representative of the left and the Obama administration.
You know, what I found most interesting was that the MSM completely ignored the story until the resignation. And now they are spinning it as a Right wing smear job. Yes indeed, Jones was smeared by his own words and deeds.
He did say some pretty radical things 17 years ago. I’m not sure how much of that he still carries. People can change over time (Strom Thurmond, Robert Byrd, who were both huge bigots but changed, and even you have changed your political thought process over the past several years). People do change. I’m not saying this is the case with Jones but during his time in the WH I can’t find one racist or radical thing he did. I’m still waiting on Obama to do something radical. He really hasn’t done much but make a bunch of speeches. Perhaps I need to drink some more Kool-Aid.
Also, who or what specifically do you consider main stream media?
Kevin, you know all the usual suspects who refuse to report news they deem damaging to The One. Led by the NY Times. Read this: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Why-did-the-press-ignore-the-Van-Jones-scandal_-8210602-57658222.html
I can’t argue that there has been HUGE breakdowns in the media and also the way many stories are covered. So many factors (24/7 cable news channels…three or four of them, blogs, newspapers struggle to keep up and so on.
I agree that journalism needs to get better. I don’t buy into this whole conspiracy theory that newspapers are all out to push a liberal agenda. These are the same papers that should have been questioning the war in Iraq but didn’t. These same papers should have been looking into the economic collapse and did not. They failed. They continue to fail. American media right now is an incredible joke.
I don’t know why the press ignored the Van Jones scandal. Probably because they were too busy covering Michael Jackson’s funeral. Maybe they were too busy chasing the Obama speech to K-12 controversy. Or trying to figure out what Brad Pitt is up to.
Why do they do this? Because apparently their audience cares more about the King of Pop than Van Jones. Sad but true.
I’m with you on the media downfall. I’m just don’t agree that the “MSM†is working with the liberals. I get a kick out of Fox News anchors claiming the MSN didn’t cover certain story and how they will. Hello? Fox News is the number one cable news channel in the world (as they tell you every chance they get) if they cover a story it is in the main stream.
My point is, I agree with you that our media needs to step up and ask more questions and be more skeptical. That is their job. I think MSM is an obsolete expression because of the huge saturation of media outlets now that dedicate all of their coverage to one side or the other. I bet you had no problem finding that link to the story in the Washington Examiner. It is all out there, all you have to do is log on to a computer or push the channel up one or two spots on the TV. Or, if you lean right, turn on the radio. There is something out there for everyone it seems.
Well, Kevin we are mostly in agreement on this one.
I connected with a high school buddy on facebook who works for the Portland newspaper. He was complaining about the paper failing and I tried to engage him on why that might be. I mean, yeah the Craigs list type sites are taking away ad revenue, but that does not explain the loss of readership. I proposed that maybe the quality of the product was the problem.
I never heard from him again.
So, I really respect the fact that as a journalist you are honest enough to cast a critical eye on your profession. I think recognizing there is a problem is the first step towards whatever the fix might be.
Just tell me that you think Keith Olbermann is at least as big a douche as Bill O’Reilly…
To author of Post 8:
Your unabashed sucking up to the relatively conservative LTG blog host is ever bit as ridiculous and gaggable as the liberal media’s behavior and laughably, just as clearly visible ……..just soze you know….. What are you ??? afraid he’s going to ban you from posting because of your miserable positions and constant, unabashed, and error-ridden liberal harping???? In the above post #8,you have attempted to, not managed to, mind you, but attempted to straddle the fence between having a totally asinine view of seriously questionable legitimacy while still giving the impression of being at least sympathetic to what is really the truth while trying to wedge in laughable lie and error as points of reasonable doubt – there can be no purpose other than to suck up and try to please the host because of earlier criticisms just as loaded with stupidity, but it is, frankly, more Juan Williams or Marianne Marsh-like in technique then it is honest. While you want to appear that you are trying to be objective regarding your liberal media rags you still have taken methods notes from them but you omit that you were a student of their techniques and a supporter and fan of their garbage.
And, yes, it has to be pointed out that it’s visible because anyone so completely out of touch as to post such ridiculous tripe as you have posted above, and in almost every post frequently elsewhere, obviously is either wearing blinders, totally out of touch, on someone’s payroll, or indeed blind……..oh, or sucking up, of course.
What I find so laughable and sometimes entertaining in your posts is when you are so eager to make a point to cover yourself that you don’t proof read your ridiculous comment for what you are really saying. Like when you posted a while back that you, something to the effect, “get calls and emails every all day long from people trying to make you look unintelligent and whatever…….”, truly memorable in it’s stupidity and clearly telling the world and admitting that you practice the habit of continually pissing many people off and have both little awareness of your effect or any intentions to do anything about it. I can’t imagine who would chose whatever line of work you have chosen and to be held in such high esteem but, here again, you admit that you willfully choose to engage in it. You and your fellow liberals have fairly well mastered the techniques of “damage by faint praise’ and perpetuating myth by telling half-truth designed to be appear fair-minded. – and I guess being able to practice such questionable skills make it all worth it, huh?
Consistent with your comment about all the hate mail and calls you if you were a clear thinker you would be well advised to strongly consider another line of work – but alas you’re not all that clear a thinker are you?
It is very obvious that you keep your list of conservative nag-themes pasted to your screen for easy and often reference as well. What is so incredible to those who know better is how you try to make comparisons between people like Van Jones and current themes with people like Jesse Helms and Robert Byrd – if that’s the best you can do, I am tempted to rest my case – but not yet. And concerning Mr. Jones’ recent nasty and anti-American inflammatory commentary – obviously you are not too skilled in the web or channel surfing tips you offer or you would have found his amply exposed and recent “ass-hole and minority community poisoning comments” just this last Spring. And, duhhhhh…………no he hasn’t said anything so inflammatory since actually on the WH payroll………… and I guess that means he has truly changed, huh.
Note that you and you and your liberal dogs give such latitude to those ridiculous circumstances but pile on conservatives for what you may perceive to be any transgression, and that usually manufactured for effect. You seem to try to admit the media is full of shit, but then say that since 22% of those measured believe that Bush was complicit in 9/11 there must be something to it? I wonder, is that an example of having it both ways that most liberals have become so skilled at?
If not so ridiculously error-ridden and laughable, yes, you would be advised to keep your true identity a very well-guarded secret.
Well, I can tell you that this is a topic that I often discuss with the reporters I know, newspaper editors and a few of my former professors. I was asked to talk to a journalism class by one of my old professors a couple of terms ago. I told the class the best advice I could give them was to change majors. I was dead serious. I haven’t been asked to speak since.
Newspapers have failed to adjust to this new world and are going under. People are still reading papers but they are doing so online and for free. They are giving away too much for free. They have no appeal to anyone under the age of 30.
Newspapers are going out of business for the same reason GM is: BAD business plan. There are many very right leaning papers that are also going belly up.
The sad thing is most journalist my age understand what is happening and have some great ideas on how to change it but there is this establishment in the media profession that refuses to change and instead is just trying to make ends meet until they retire. No one is solving the problem.
But again, I don’t blame this on some left leaning issue. Just bad business. And, yes, some bad reporters too. We are left with a watered down and filtered product produced by watered down and filtered people. Again, a shame.
As for Keith Olbermann and Bill O’Reilly…well, I think those two are secretly in love. Both seem to be obsessed with the other. But I do enjoy both shows. They are entertaining. I also like the Daily Show which unlike Bill O. and Keith O. is actually TRYING to be funny.
Oh, and Dentoku, I think you may have mixed your meds wrong today. When I read something like that I feel obligated to call 911 and tell them someone is in trouble. Just remember, if you don’t get help at Charter, please get help somewhere.
Things must be slow in the Ville’ tonight.
Great, Kevin, the old mixed med’s retort – I’m sure there are still a few readers who haven’t heard that one yet As a journalist one would think that surely can do better than that…….but maybe not, which is probably why you are still in the business of trying to peddle half-truths and out-right lies – and, of course, trying to blame the demise of your so-called industry on other factors other than the public’s disgust with your techniques.
Initially, the post of yours above was the very first half-way reasonable post I’d read by you, sort of reminded me maybe of a guy who knew he and his business weren’t long for this world……kind of pensive, almost, and I only very briefly thought for just a fleeting moment that maybe we could have a reasonable dialogue, perhaps – of course then you had to go and show your true colors and queer the deal in the final paragraph – which BTW, is more the norm for journalists of the liberal bent, then just going ahead and let the basic message stand on it’s own. But then you would know a lot about that part, wouldn’t you?. Yes, you would be advised to call 911 to your own address, actually, if they are ordered to responded to journalists who can’t spell properly, do proper sentence structure or grammar or get their facts straight, but then, I don’t think they respond to such foolishness do they?
When I studied Journalism so many years ago as half of a double major for my Bachelor’s, I remember taking a couple courses on Advocacy Journalism – and I remember how strongly the professors were opposed to the trend – a trend as you know that has now become the unabashed and unapologetic norm – such a state we are in. And though I haven’t read anything of yours and would probably choose not to if there is any other than on this blog, I am able to fairly well recognize by reading only your comments here that you are well skilled in the technique though you, I think, nearly always show your Achilles heel by unintentionally mixing your facts so that even a entry-level astute reader can discern your agenda and bias.
Don’t worry Mr. Kevin, when your paper folds you might be able to get a position selling magazine subscriptions somewhere. Most likely too late to start another profession in a real job – they’re pretty much all taken and you are no doubt a bit long-in-the-tooth anyway.
———————————-
I’ve encountered a numbers of employed journalists over the years in letters to the editor and online in discussion groups and blogs but never till you did I meet one who so gleefully attempted the art of personal destruction, defamation and put-down. Guess that’s something else that shows who you are, isn’t it and the state of our journalistic corps?
I’m just happy to have the opportunity to be able to take on a real purveyor of lies and trash up front and directly.
I’m glad that I stand out among the many journalist you have encountered. It is always nice to be noticed.
Oh, and go back and read some other topics on this blog and a some of my other recent post and maybe you will see why I really am sucking up to the blog host. He is literally the reason why I am here. Guess you were too busy playing word nerd and casting misguided stones to make the obvious connection. In fact, it was a connection in which I actually clearly stated just a few days ago in a comment directed to you.
Yep, no doubt, you have me all figured out. Nothing gets by you.
Oh, and can I interest you in a two year subscription to Sports Illustrated? I’ll throw in the Lakers 2009 NBA Champions DVD for free. You have to act now while supplies last.
Stand out???… more like stand-down, actually – here again you don’t read your own words. You attribute to me the very thing you practice yourself. Simply incredible and the reason your journalism credentials, or lack thereof, were mentioned in the first place.
Note to Kevin, here: Hint – you would seem to need to try to develop the habit of sitting on the words you write for an hour or so, then go back and read them before posting – you would probably catch a few of those faux pas if you did, but only if you cared to of course…
And I don’t do NBA, but if you have an NFL calendar we have a deal.
Stand out???… more like stand-down, actually – here again you don’t read your own words. You attribute to me the very thing you practice yourself. Simply incredible and the reason your journalism credentials, or lack thereof, were mentioned in the first place.
Note to Kevin, here: Hint – you would seem to need to try to develop the habit of sitting on the words you write for an hour or so, then go back and read them before posting – you would probably catch a few of those faux pas if you did, but only if you cared to of course…
And I don’t do NBA, but if you have an NFL calendar we have a deal.
Dentoku is pretty good at picking up sarcasm.
Well, I am off to peddle half-truths and out-right lies – and, of course, trying to blame the demise of my so-called industry on other factors other than the public’s disgust with my techniques.
😉
I scarcely think a son being respectful of his father’s position qualifies him as a suck up. I think it is admirable the way Kevin is able to make his point without degenerating into personal attacks. We could all stand to take a page from his playbook.
If he is John’s son, I am stunned to learn of it. And given so, if true, I will never again comment on anything he says, simply out of respect for John. But in saying so and in leaving the subject a couple points should be made and he would appear to be getting a break he didn’t earn or deserve:
– Even if he is John’s son, he is apparently an adult and is making his own opinions, mostly, from what I can tell, do not agree with John’s.
– In any case, when a person sticks their neck out with commentary they are pretty much on their own and fair game to earn the comments they receive, pro or con, regardless of anything else, in this man’s part of the world, at least.
– If you actually think he makes his points without resulting to personal attacks it would have to be because of one or more of several factors that even I can piece together: either you are not on the receiving end of his attacks, know him personally and only want to think the best of him, or are not paying attention. He’s been attacking with the best of them, even within this very thread. On at least a couple of occasions I have been ready to just ignore him completely and even stated such only to change my mind when he renewed his attack yet again.
– Finally, though I don’t know you, Fortuneate, from Adam’s far ox, I am not surprised to read your comment and it is entirely consistent with your tendency of what I see as you ignoring what you don’t like and comment as though it doesn’t exist – simply amazing. On the other hand, for all I can tell you might very probably be sucking-up too.
In retrospect, however, what I saw as sucking-up was a fair comment given I did not know there was a relationship and a bit unusual to find such a thing on a blog, in any case. If I was not already familiar with your commentary pattern I would also find it amazing that this hadn’t occurred to you already or that you didn’t see it for yourself and felt the need to make your comments.
In any case, enough of this sordid business.
First of all, you, along with anyone else here can comment on anything I post. When you lob misguided insults towards me you are not insulting John’s son, you are insulting yourself.
You find it strange that a son, who rarely gets the chance to see or speak to his father, chooses to communicate with him on his blog?
And you are stunned to learn of this relationship?
Here is a portion of a post in the comment section you were a part of less than a week ago:
“You see, Dennis, I love my Dad. He loves me too. We don’t see eye to eye on politics (but he is the one that I credit for getting me interested in the process at an early age, he indoctrinated me if you will…quick story, I was FORCED to watch the Bush (part one) inauguration in 4th grade. I was the only person in my class that liked Dukakis ((hope that is spelled right;)) because of a discussion I had with my Dad. In political science 101 we learned the number one factor in political affiliation is ones parents. That is true for me. My dad and I no longer sit on the same side of the isle but we both still love each other and our country just the same.
I know you said earlier you couldn’t understand how people in government could be adversaries politically and friends later (this is paraphrased from your very long winded but grammatically correct take on Ted Kennedy). The bottom line is everyone here shares one thing in common: We love this country. We just have different visions of where we want to go and how we want to get there. I am not asking anyone to worship Obama or like him. I hope he does well. Just like I hoped Bush did well. I cringed when I saw far left fringe freaks burning flags and calling Bush the devil and saying 9/11 was an inside job.
As I stated before, you can take all the shots at my age, lack of military service (I want to say thanks for your service though), and, GASP, mistakes in post that I often write during a quick moment break at my office. Bottom line is my opinion counts just as much as yours and I believe in mine just as strongly as you do yours. I’m more concerned with people that DON’T have ANY opinion. Apathy is the true enemy.
So, shoot all the fish in a barrel you want, just be careful you don’t shoot yourself in the foot.
Comment by Kevin — 05/September/2009 @ 9:31 pm
I think it is safe to say you DID shoot yourself in the foot and then proceeded to put said foot directly in your mouth.
And so it finally ends…
Game. Set. Match.
Better luck next time.
Not quite yet, baby-boy.
Much against my desire to respond you call me out yet again. When will you give it up? I’ve given you at least three opportunities, more than that probably, but here you are, pants down again showing your hind-end, yet again, with all your magnificent cleverness. You are just so sharp – so clever – bet you’ve always been that way, hun? My goodness. Guess maybe hat’s why you studied Journalism – to really give it to’em, huh?
Ok then. So let me limp on over here with my sore and near shot-off foot and then stick my foot in my mouth, yet again, to try’n shoot sa’more a these fish and try to lob some more of those miss-guided insults to discredit Kevin, while really I only insult my poor miserable self.
And then to the point, as usually encountered in your posts, you are so astute in your observations, sarcasm intended, and so overcome with the need to defend yourself (truth intended – self-concept issues in here anywhere???) that you miss the key element in the post you choose to try to show that I should have known John was your Father. I choose to say Father because if my own son was such a jerk as you seem to be I don’t think I would be eager to claim him as his Dad – but then John seems to be a better guy than I am, if tolerance is a virtue, and I’m not sure it always its – clearly, his model you have chosen, such a shame, not to follow. But again to the point, yes, you speak that you love your dad and he you, which is just so peachy, but I just don’t see anywhere in your quoted text where you identify that John is your dad/father – now isn’t that just something ? Yes, the reference to your dad is there, but not paired with John. Hummmmm????? Remember my tip about proof-reading? But still I was supposed to read between your lines, especially since the vaunted YOU wrote them – and of course should follow any thread you are a part of to it’s total magnificent end just to be sure I have every golden morsel you have written and of course to gather all my ammunition too. Yeah, I guess I should have picked that up somewhere else along the way shouldn’t I have? And no, I don’t read every line of every post if I can somehow hide behind such a disclaimer (now there’s a gift opportunity for you – don’t miss it).
I’m truly sorry to have to say this about John’s son, cause I have come to really like John, but sadly do not feel the same way about his son. You say John taught you a bunch of things along the way and I’m sure he really tried, but one thing that seems to obviously not have stuck was the ability to hold your tongue and be polite even when you would rather lash out. I’m pretty sure you know that already and if you’re working on developing the skill – be advised – hmmmm, no, that won’t work for you, you don’t take advice – but at least maybe consider, in my experience watching folks over the years I haven’t seen them change much, myself as a prime example.
As for your conduct, I wouldn’t even consider to begin a hammering tryst with commenter’s to my father’s blog the way you do, out of simple respect for my father. Yes, I might mildly point out this or that but I’d end it there (your father is a find example of this technique, BTW). But this will fall on deaf ears just as I’m sure so much of what you might have learned throughout your years so far and so many other lessons probably have too. If you were my son, which thankfully you are not, and if you would be attending the forthcoming get-together with John, which I’m just as sure you’re not – John has the respect to go to the event at great personal expense, but I’m just as sure you are too self-absorbed in your own life to do so, hoping I’m wrong with this, but sure I’m not – well I’d try to use the occasion to discretely if possible, take you aside and take you on a bit and try to give you a lesson in the art of communications and maybe respect for others too – particularly, maybe, where my blog was involved.
So odd what you chose that for line of work but for which you still haven’t mastered the basic elements. Sort of like the shy,miss-fit opting to study psychology, huh?
So to conclude, no matter what you say from here forth this is my last post to you. So have at it. Get your win which seems to so important to you.
Quite a man you’ve become, Kevin – no fault to John. Quite a man.
I actaully like all this tit-for tat tyrsts. a good way to place your opinins out there. Yet, all needs to be done in respect for each other and not just the blog owner.
I agree with you Duke. But you better watch your back, there was a typo is your comment. Don’t you PROOF read? 🙂 🙂 🙂
I would respond to you Dentoku, but I am too busy. I heading out to meet my Dad and the rest of my family for a weekend retreat. Looks like you were wrong…again.
This is really too easy. Thanks for “giving” me the win. I’ll take it.
A good weekend to all!
Kevin –
I proof read my work at work. If someone wants to belittle me on my spelling, no problem. Next they can kiss my A@@. Enjoy the time with the famiily and tell John hello from us.